Since I am new here, I am trying to figure out why the pulsing that I have been reading about seems to increase the gas output.

1. Does the pulsing allow the water mixture to get back to the plates? In other words, do the bubbles allow arcing because the water is not between them any longer, and the relieving of the electricity lets the bubbles pass on?

2. Would having plates that are only 1/4" thick vertically (in the solution) allow the bubbles to be relieved easier, instead of having to climb say 3" or so, thus alleviating the need of pulsing? (Obviously, you would need a longer length, and several more of them to satisfy the amount of plate surface needed.) I would also envision them being not on top of each other, so as the bubbles coming from beneath would not run into plates above them.

Thanks.

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My understanding ís that the pulsing helps to attract and cohere Zero Point Energy into the system, which ought to increase the quality of the gas the system produces. The reason pulsing coheres ZPE is that it reduces entropy in the quantum vacuum in a manner described by Ilya Prigogine. By knocking out the balance (or "symmetry") that normally exists between the physical and the non-physical side of the quantum vacuum, this can allow ZPE to bleed or flow into the system. At least, this is how I tentatively understand what Paul Laviolette is saying in his theory of subquantum kinetics (http://starburstfound.org/subquantum-kinetics-a-nontechnical-summary/).

Moray King describes Prigogine's theory about how a chaotic system can become ordered and, in the process, allow one to extract Zero Point Energy at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEb2xMBRiHo. A group I work with in Vietnam has also put together a rough presentation on some of these ideas at http://www.slideshare.net/SaigonNewEnergyGroup/new-energy-part-3-th.... I’m not sure if there might be some ideas of use there too.

The rate and waveform of pulsing seems to be important. In general, the abruptness of pulsing is often considered to be key (fellows I work with often talk about finding equipment that can produce a “true square wave” as opposed to a gradual increase and decrease in voltage). I think this has to do with what King and people like Marcus Reid and Thomas Bearden refer to when they speak of developing an “asymmetrical system”. There are certain geometries involved in the water molecule, the hydrogen atoms, and the oxygen atom which may play a part in determining which frequencies of pulsing are most effective.

Pulsing is supposed to allow HHO to be released more effectively. If a pulse matches the neighboring plate it could interfere with the bubbles and bunch up, but if the bubbles are produced at different frequencies those bubbles flow more freely.

Some people believe that a tuned system like what Stan Meyers did seperates the bubbles faster because they are tuned. Tesla used the same effect with many devices. Electric motors are very efficient because of that technology. Any piano that is tuned well does so because of resonant frequency.

It is similar to how Plasma works because you have 2 forces working together to create the phenomenon. In plasma systems the frequency is set by the input voltage sine wave or square wave producing an electrical gas. In electrolysis systems the pulse rate sets the production rate along with amperage.

In plasma systems, when you hit the right temperature and voltage you attain an active plasma that reduces the resistance which prevents amps from flowing while allowing the same voltage to do the same work. In electrolysis cells the voltage and amps do the same work as in plasma systems, but plasma changes resistence when it forms allowing you to make more with less total watts. The same thing happens in electrolysis cells when a resonant frequency is attained.

Meyers and several other attained resonance in their cells. Meyers used tuning of tubes to get the "tone" equal to the resonant frequency of the electrical supply profile. He filed and tuned each tube until they "Resonated" at the same frequency. He also used coils in the return voltage side to "charge" the tubes on the off voltage pulse nearly doubling his output.

Other people have done similar things, but the key to all of them was resonant frequency. Sometimes that frequency can be set up and not extinguished until the continuity in the circuit is broken. That is called a "Tank Circuit" in electronics. Capacitors can set that up in a circuit and continue to fire it until connection is broken.

That is more or less what Meyers' system would do because he took so much care in the tuning it.

I just realised what you were asking about. Your plates being shorter would have less surface area. That would produce less gas. You referred to the "Height" of the plate as "Thickness".

If I am correct in my assumption you would create very little gas. If you put plates in a bath without seperating them electrically you have a "Series Cell". They are very inefficient and heat water very well using a lot of amps and creating very little useful gas.

If you put those plates in series using gaskets or other methods for isolating the water between the plates you have a "Series Cell". These are the most efficient and will not heat water. Any electricy not used for producing gas will be used to produce heat. That in turn will change the resistance of your water and increase amp draw eventually leading to "runaway voltage" which can boil water and eliminate any gas production while pulling tons of amps.

A good cell is made with 6-7 plates sharing water through holes in the bottom and an openning on top for gas to escape. Always use a bubbler to resupply the cell and protect the cell from any backflash fron the output just in case it gets lit somehow??????

FYI: Small amounts of HHO produce small explosions so always limit the amount of gas that can accumulate in any container. HHO is already infused with oxygen so all you need is enough heat to make it explode. Pressure can make it explode if the temp gets high enough even in a closed container. Normally gas in a closed container is very safe until it is exposed to oxygen, but HHO is stoichmetrically mixed and can explode very easilly, That's why HHO explodes when you light it instead of burning like any other gas.

The pulsing is what stretches the water molecules back and forth and then breaks the bond.  Another reason is that without the pulsing you'd have separation but then you also have heating of the water in short order.  Electrolysis, direct current, straight DC is inefficient.  A simple 50/50 pulsing uses half the electricity, and heats the water much less.  I am also new for the most part so don't quote me.  Another thing I have found, maybe not related but I want to think it is, is "cold electricity" or ... dang I can't remember the name of it...  Try searching "cold electricity" and then maybe "Tesla pulsing dc with a cap. and spark gap."  Hope this helps.                               Later  

Of course Stan Meyers is the last person to make major discoveries in "HHO" so watching his stuff (dated by now) is always good.

I know you have read that pulsing doubles the output, but that is not true.

Any PWM pulses voltage. You don't double the output of a cell when you hook up a PWM. Test this yourself.

D/C voltage is a type of pulse. The waveform of d/c is a squarewave  and a/c is a sine wave (sideways S). A PWM just interrupts the current flow momentarily allowing for a duty cycle. The duty cycle can limit the overall current flow by slowing down the pulses.

Straight d/c is the same as a pwm pulsing at 100%. The cell output is identical, unless there are losses in the PWM and extra wiring which would make straight d/c more efficient.

Don't believe everything you read. That includes what I might tell you. Find out for yourself. You don't need an elaborate setup to test a lot of "Theories". I advise anyone who is new to HHO to research those who have been around a long time and save yourself a lot of trouble, but I also don't discourage anyone from trying the same things themselves. I would, however, ask that people refrain from passing around untrue BS so that other newbies don't buy into a false idea.

I don't mean to offend, just trying to keep this forum from becoming a place for misinformation. If you don't know about something, design your own test and find out for yourself. That's the best way to learn.

Jeff McCambridge said:

The pulsing is what stretches the water molecules back and forth and then breaks the bond.  Another reason is that without the pulsing you'd have separation but then you also have heating of the water in short order.  Electrolysis, direct current, straight DC is inefficient.  A simple 50/50 pulsing uses half the electricity, and heats the water much less.  I am also new for the most part so don't quote me.  Another thing I have found, maybe not related but I want to think it is, is "cold electricity" or ... dang I can't remember the name of it...  Try searching "cold electricity" and then maybe "Tesla pulsing dc with a cap. and spark gap."  Hope this helps.                               Later  

Of course Stan Meyers is the last person to make major discoveries in "HHO" so watching his stuff (dated by now) is always good.

Brian answers the question the best. A correctly built PWM, helps add longitudinal energy into the cell and creates a higher  quality  of HHO, more % of ortho HHO is made more poweful. It also shocks the water molecules and whacks them silly to the ortho spin state. It has to be a square wave, pulsing on the negative side to attract the negative dark energy of the either. Down under they call it orgone energy. A 7-plate cell with 5 neutral plates and no or little 12v leakage gets the volts in each 6 cells to the 2 volt range, the neutral plates are voltage dividers. In the voltage range from 1.5V to 2.8v ortho HHO can be made.  The pulsing does not help get off the bubbles. Forcing the electrons to go though all the neutral plates to get to the other side, forces the bubbles to come off and new bubbles are pushing right behind it. Also every square cm of plate surface area is putting off gas, rather then 90% of the electrons going the easy route to get to the other side though the bloody holes you drilled into all the plates. Bob Boyce was very upset when Tero drilled holes in the plates and every body copied it. If you seal each 6 cells of a 7 plate or tube cell , you avoid the 12 volt leaping over the neutral plates or going around the neutral plates, like in a one bath hho cell. A 7 plate cell with no holes ( + N N N N N -) sealed each 6 cells inside s the most efficient cell and runs cool. You must also watch out when making greater % of ortho hho, it can and will flash back to para HHO at 10 to 15lbs of pressure, so never pressurize this type o gas.

Ever take your cell apart and the plates with the holes, you will find black/brown stains by the holes and the outter edges of the SS plates are still silver. Take a simple B3 cell with no holes you find even bronzed plates all over the plate, no burnt areas and no silver areas, on the hydrogen side of the plates. The other side is an even gray on the oxidated side of the plates and no silver areas, this shows you that every square cm of plate surface area was used and put off gas. The plates with the holes, teh burnt area around the holes shows you most of the energy went thogh that hole and the silver areas ear thw edges were not even used and little gas came off these area. So what cell do you thin os more efiecent makes ore gas? and does not make heat, nr erode the electrons. Any volts over 2.8v, starts heating up the electrodes and energy is wasted into heat. Why not go cool and make more gas a dn less heat. In 2009 at a HHO Games in FL, the Simple B3 cell was the winner of the most effeicent cell at the show. Bob's 1981 patented gag ordered sealed series cell design. Seen here : http://hydrogengarage.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&am...

Andrew from Hydrogen Garage dot calm.

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