HODINFO is a collaborative think tank. We are an International group comprised of inventors, scientist, mechanics, tinkerers, fabricators, and out of the box thinkers. Our mission is to find innovative solutions to the problems that primarily limit the production and delivery of H2. As the world wakes up to the idea of using hydrogen it also becomes clear that immense infrastructure initiatives will be required to make it happen. If adequate solutions can be found to support HOD systems then the world can remove great and costly limitations on future applications. It is important to realize that the future is not just Hydrogen, it's Hydrogen-on-Demand.

Catalytic Carbon PR11 Press Release new concepts and ACE cell.

I have been in talks with Howard Phillips whose team continues to innovate at a rapid pace. This most recent chat resulted in HODINFO members being the first to learn of a new concept and a new cell design. If your looking for a new direction to test I would suggest you soak up as much of this info as you can. Please see attached PR11 file or follow the link for it below and then follow the link to the ACE cell. 

www.PhillipsCompany.4T.com/PR11.pdf

www.PhillipsCompany.4T.com/PA.pdf (patent)

http://www.phillipscompany.4t.com/PAfull.pdf

http://www.phillipscompany.4t.com/ACE1.pdf

www.PhillipsCompany.4T.com/ACE2.pdf

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I did not see any mention of how this method collects the hydrogen and put into a storage tank?

Yeah that is kind of the point. We are HOD Info. Hydrogen On Demand. You could always bottle it but why if you can regulate the desired amount.

Tom Opiela said:

I did not see any mention of how this method collects the hydrogen and put into a storage tank?

Yes exactly the point Gabe.

Produce H2 exactly where it is needed at the volumes required, no more and no less. Far more economical and safer than trying to store or transport it.

No loss of H2 due to leakage

No cryogenic like temperatures or huge pressures to be concerned with.

On and off when required.

Huge reduction in infrastructure technology and logistics costs.

Wins all the way.

Might rock the apple cart a bit!



Tom Opiela said:

I did not see any mention of how this method collects the hydrogen and put into a storage tank?

Hi Tom --  Here, from the press release (PR11.pdf)....

This simple, straight-forward hydrogen-generation approach appears to be the only method, worldwide, that (1) results in more energy output when the hydrogen is used (combusted, burned) than the energy required to generate the hydrogen; and (2) uses only low cost and friendly materials (carbon and fuel); and (3) uses only two fuels (scrap metal and water); and (4) because of the above, eliminates the need for hydrogen storage tanks for most applications; and  (5) can generate hydrogen, directly from the cell, at ANY pressure, limited only by the hardware design; and (6) can produce the hydrogen on demand, or "HOD;" and (7) produces only TWO products (hydrogen and metal oxide); and (8) after harvesting the hydrogen, the metal oxide by-product is environmentally safe and can be either discarded or recycled; and (9) can produce hydrogen with no critical parameter control, leading to a hydrogen manufacturing process that has a wide process latitude, which leads to easy control and therefore low cost for hardware used to produce the hydrogen, and perhaps most importantly, (10) can generate ANY rate (LPM, GPM) of hydrogen. 

I think what you are looking for is the item (4) above, from the press release.  

I appreciate your comment, and will make that point in a more prominent manner in the document that explains how to build cells with this new technology.  That document is www.PhillipsCompany.4T.com/ACE2.pdf

Kind regards,

Howard

Hi there Howard,

This ACE cell seems to tick all the boxes and has restored my faith. In your pdf, you mentioned that your test vehicle did not require a flashback arrester, because of the fuel injection, will the fuel injection on a diesel engine also negate the need for a flashback arrester ?? Also, I've not heard the term "hardware spike" down here in Australia ( what is it?)

Cheers, Allan Wells.

Hi Allan --  I recommend the use of a flashback arrestor because that is the safe way to go.  But, using one requires an awkward hydrogen injection point, between the throttle body and the air intake port.

 

I have no way of knowing which engines are "tight" and don't backfire (the source of most flashbacks).  But, fuel injection systems seem to be much, much tighter (better) than the old-fashioned carburators.  My test vehicle is a 2004 Buick.  My guess is that newer engines are better (tighter) and the trend (better, tighter FI systems) will probably continue into the future.

 

My guess (just a guess) is that most fuel injection systems -- gasoline AND diesel -- are tight.  If you have never experienced a backfire (most common during startup), then I'd guess you don't need a flashback arrestor.  But, I'm just guessing.

 

A hardware spike is a big nail -- about 1/4 inch in diameter and about 10 inches long.

 

I've never had the experience of restoring another's faith!!  I am pleased to be part of your faith-restoration system. 

 

Kind regards,

Howard

 

 

Alan,

In a carb engine the flash-back runs back to the carb via the manifold space. Diesels and PI petrol engines have no input manifold void that is filled with a combustible air/fuel mixture as the fuel is directly injected. So in theory a flash-back would not be a reality in normal use.

However, if you were to unfortunately flood the engine (or it turns over without starting) some fuel vapor could conceivably escape into the inlet manifold and provide an opportunity for a flash-back in exactly the same way excess unburnt fuel entering the exhaust manifold can cause a back-fire "bang".

I'd err on the side of caution because you never know!

My pennies worth.

Martin

Thanks Martin,

Just had another thought, if some diesel did escape into the inlet manifold, wouldn't it need a spark to set it off?

Allan.


Martin Moore said:

Alan,

In a carb engine the flash-back runs back to the carb via the manifold space. Diesels and PI petrol engines have no input manifold void that is filled with a combustible air/fuel mixture as the fuel is directly injected. So in theory a flash-back would not be a reality in normal use.

However, if you were to unfortunately flood the engine (or it turns over without starting) some fuel vapor could conceivably escape into the inlet manifold and provide an opportunity for a flash-back in exactly the same way excess unburnt fuel entering the exhaust manifold can cause a back-fire "bang".

I'd err on the side of caution because you never know!

My pennies worth.

Martin


Thanks Howard,

I've done courier work for around 16 years with a lot off stop and starts a day and have never had a backfire in my 2.2 turbo diesel engine. On another note, a 1/4 inch nail inside what looks about 3/4 inch pipe leaves a lot of play, wouldn't something a little smaller (insulated) than the inside diameter of the pipe be better ?? ( to equalize as much as possible the area of two electrodes).

Cheers Allan.

Howard Phillips said:

Hi Allan --  I recommend the use of a flashback arrestor because that is the safe way to go.  But, using one requires an awkward hydrogen injection point, between the throttle body and the air intake port.

 

I have no way of knowing which engines are "tight" and don't backfire (the source of most flashbacks).  But, fuel injection systems seem to be much, much tighter (better) than the old-fashioned carburators.  My test vehicle is a 2004 Buick.  My guess is that newer engines are better (tighter) and the trend (better, tighter FI systems) will probably continue into the future.

 

My guess (just a guess) is that most fuel injection systems -- gasoline AND diesel -- are tight.  If you have never experienced a backfire (most common during startup), then I'd guess you don't need a flashback arrestor.  But, I'm just guessing.

 

A hardware spike is a big nail -- about 1/4 inch in diameter and about 10 inches long.

 

I've never had the experience of restoring another's faith!!  I am pleased to be part of your faith-restoration system. 

 

Kind regards,

Howard

 

 

Allan's question:  "a 1/4 inch nail inside what looks about 3/4 inch pipe leaves a lot of play, wouldn't something a little smaller (insulated) than the inside diameter of the pipe be better ??"

Reply:  I think you are right.  It could be better.  I considered a larger center electrode, held in place with an "O" ring.  But, that would tend to prevent the hydrogen from bubbling up, as desired.  Even so, I agree with you that this could be a better design, including closer spacing between the two coaxial electrodes.  Another improvement would be a better method for attaching a copper wire (or stud) to the cast iron.  I wish I knew more about spot welding, because I suspect that would be better than the method (cold welding) that I am using.

Kind regards,

Howard

How about a pipe (centre electrode) inside a pvc pipe (for insulation with holes in the pvc pipe for electrolyte circulation) then that assembly inside another pipe (outside electrode). Not sure what you mean by closer spacing between the coaxial electrodes? As for attaching a copper wire or stud (I think you mean were you connect the power  wires to the electrodes), braising or silver soldering  might be the go ( one tab/stud on the inside surface of the outside electrode and one on the outside surface of the inside electrode, this would put them very close together, maybe too close ( this would be a lot slower than spot or cold welding). But then, I am not a builder, yet. 

Cheers,

Allan.


Howard Phillips said:

Allan's question:  "a 1/4 inch nail inside what looks about 3/4 inch pipe leaves a lot of play, wouldn't something a little smaller (insulated) than the inside diameter of the pipe be better ??"

Reply:  I think you are right.  It could be better.  I considered a larger center electrode, held in place with an "O" ring.  But, that would tend to prevent the hydrogen from bubbling up, as desired.  Even so, I agree with you that this could be a better design, including closer spacing between the two coaxial electrodes.  Another improvement would be a better method for attaching a copper wire (or stud) to the cast iron.  I wish I knew more about spot welding, because I suspect that would be better than the method (cold welding) that I am using.

Kind regards,

Howard

BELOW IS A RESPONSE (INTERSPERSED COMMENTS) to the post by Allan Wells

ALLAN:  How about a pipe (centre electrode) inside a pvc pipe (for insulation with holes in the pvc pipe for electrolyte circulation) then that assembly inside another pipe (outside electrode).

YES, THERE ARE MANY POSSIBLE COMBINATIONS WHICH CAN WORK WELL FOR THE ELECTRODE AND CELL DESIGN.  THE ACE TECHNOLOGY IS A VERY FLEXIBLE HYDROGEN PRODUCTION SYSTEM.  I THINK YOUR DESIGN IDEAS WOULD WORK.

ALLAN:  Not sure what you mean by closer spacing between the coaxial electrodes?

COAXIAL ELECTRODES REFERS TO A "PIPE IN A PIPE" WHERE BOTH PIPES ARE ELECTRODES, BUT ELECTRICALLY INSULATED FROM EACH OTHER EXCEPT FOR CURRENT FLOW THROUGH THE WATER AND ELECTROLYTE.

ALLAN:  As for attaching a copper wire or stud (I think you mean were you connect the power  wires to the electrodes)

CORRECT -- THAT'S WHERE SOME GOOD IDEAS ARE NEEDED.

ALLAN:  braising or silver soldering  might be the way to go ( one tab/stud on the inside surface of the outside electrode and one on the outside surface of the inside electrode, this would put them very close together, maybe too close ( this would be a lot slower than spot or cold welding). 

ALL IDEAS ARE WELCOME.  I'M SURE WE CAN DO BETTER REGARDING THE METHOD FOR MAKING THE ELECTRICAL CONNECTIONS TO THE ELECTRODES.

ALLAN:  But then, I am not a builder, yet. 

IF YOU CONTINUE TO INTERACT WITH THE PEOPLE ON HODINFO, I SUSPECT YOU MAY BECOME A BUILDER.  I THINK MANY OF THE MEMBERS (MORE THAN 3000 MEMBERS) ARE BUILDERS.  SO WE WELCOME YOU TO THE CELL BUILDER WHEN YOU WANT START A GARAGE PROJECT.

KIND REGARDS,

Howard

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