Hi All,

I'm new here, I am sorry if this has been asked before.

I have bought a couple of different HHO systems, I have had it working fine with older trucks, like 2008 and prior, however I go through more fuel when I connect it to a modern engine with an ECU.  I know there are a few gadgets like MAF and VOLO chips to get around this, however from what I hear they do not work,

Does anyone have a good solution to get around working with modern ECUs?

Thanks in Advance

Bill

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The problem a lot of systems seem to have is they have no real control of the energy thet are putting into the system. I have just fitted one of our systems onto a 2016 Cummins 600 HP and it is working fine and returning a good result.

I have a pro tuner installed on a 95 honda, working great if you want to cut the fuel up to around 20% leaner..  That's about the most the ECU will let you lean with only tricking the sensors.  To go leaner that that, you can A, change your injectors for smaller ones, if you can find some that are compatible with your model. B Install a pressure regulator before the fuel rail that will lower the injection pressure, thus less fuel will be delivered for a given pulse length of the injector.  This has the downside of making a poorer mist, due to lower injection pressure, and you may get problems with the newer cars if you do that, though you may get away with a check engine light.. 

The downside of all these techniques is that you lean the fuel all the way equal, regardless of engine RPM or load.  

The best solution, and I'm thinking about doing that, would be to install a piggy back fuel injection / ignition controller, like the ones from AEM ( they make a universal one for 400$ )  This way you have precise control over the amount of fuel that is delivered at all time. You can have a leaner mixture where you need it and a richer mixture where you need it.  You want a leaner than normal mixture at low engine RPM, and a little richer than normal ( for performance ) at higher RPM and engine load..  With this unit, you highjack the signal from the ECU to the injectors, rather than messing with sensor input.. 

That's the only way to get a really high mileage and still get good, or better that stock performance.. at least that's my opinion.. 

That is interesting.

I suspect that others may be able to throw more light on the topic but I think that the additional Oxygen in the H2 is fooling the ECU to think that it needs to add fuel to balance the mixture.

There may be an easier way to go and that might be to ditch the concept of HHO which is a H2 + O gas cocktail and go for H2 instead.

There are a number of ways to achieve this but one worth looking at is Howard Phillips' ACE2 cell design. It is patented but completely open for people to develop into workable solutions.

The design of the cell is such that it produces H2 gas through electrolysis but locks the Oxygen up as a solid oxide which may be removed from month to month depending on use.

Google "Howard Phillips ACE2 cell" and you should find the information that might help you.

Regards

Martin

Mr. Moore is in reference to this http://hodinfo.com/forum/topics/catalytic-carbon-pr11-press-release...

The thing I find most interesting about it is the use of Iron instead of aluminum. This has two benefits, one being that it is cheaper than aluminum and the other being that the byproduct which if my memory serves me is Magnetite which is removable via magnetic methods. So the cell could be programmed to clean itself via an energized electromagnet on a timer or controlled by an https://www.arduino.cc/ . I too believe that the sequestration of oxygen is a huge benefit as it relates to the electronics on vehicles. If the sensor can't detect it it cant interfere with it.

There is also the family of cells called separator cells which through a simple design change keep the oxygen an hydrogen from merging in the cell. This allows you to dump the oxygen to the atmosphere if so desired.  http://hodinfo.com/video/pure-hydrogen-separator-cell-split-cell-hy...

Bill.

Volo modules work well for us. I'd say a total of over 70 installed in the past three years and we have no complaints. Once you understand how they work you can make the proper adjustments to your hho output and you'll start improving mileage.

The ECU of a vehicle has limits to how much the value for a sensor can be changed before it trips the ETC light. 1996 to 2006 that window was +/- 5%. 2007-8 vehicles have computers with adjustment windows of +/- 3%.

The Volo module is programmed with the same 3d map as the vehicle ECU. What this means is the Volo module can only make an adjustment of +/- 3%. If the amount of hho added to the engine makes the mixture leaner than the Volo module can correct for (O2 sensor dropping voltage to the ECU by more than 3%), the extra drop in voltage from the O2 sensor is passed to the computer which gives the command to richen the mixture. This defeats the purpose of hho in the first place.

So the trick to making them work well is to not put too much hho into the engine. Not more than the Volo can handle. Volo must obey the mfgs.specs and keep adjustments to +/- 3%. You'll have to experiment with how much hho that is with your present system. You'd be surprised how little hho is needed to improve mileage significantly. We know how much hho to add to the engine with our systems so the Volo operates optimally. This gives increases of 20-40% increases in mpg depending on the vehicle. We have also found that hho does not work on Kia, Hyundai and many Nissans. There's a reason for that but that's another discussion.

So if you still have that Volo module around, reconnect it and begin changing the percentage of the sodium hydroxide in your reservoir until you see the optimal mixture concentration. Or if you're using a PWM, adjust the hho production by reducing power to the cell.  

Hope this helps.

Spot on Gabe... you hit the nail on the head and a better explanation than I posted.

By the way... I've not bee called "Mr Moore" since I retired - it looks so funny now.

Also, one thing that can help is to add water vapour to the air/ fuel / hho mixture..  It will trick the ECU into thinking the mixture is too rich.. 

That may be the simplest method of all..  Side to side with the plug & play volo chip.. 

I've added an aluminum cylinder right above the exhaust manifold, in wich a shot of water + a small amount of methanol is vaccumed in, via a solenoid valve. Heat from the exhaust heats up the water and create water vapor, wich is drawn into the intake via engine vacuum.  Water vapour  is seen by O2 sensor as a rich mixture..   

That has been my experience and that's the claims made by Aquatune ( google it ) 

Who says Volo FS2's do not work? R U reading old posts? Yes when they first came out in 2008, many bugs, but they always send you the latest one, if you return your old one. They are good about refunding if it does not work. We sell thenm with every HHO kit. We also sell Darol Mason;s EFIES and Geroge Wisemen's EFIE's and Scanguages, Ultragauges. WIth Volo and HHO on diesel expect 20% to 30% gains on gas 25%. COuntried with less refined fuels, even better. We produce a high % of the ORTHO HHO spin state the gas that bonds to carbon, only need a little. 5 amps on I4 engines, 7 amps on V6 and 10/15 amps on V8 engines.

Volo works 90% of the time the last 4 years. Also $89.95 compared to $300 to $900 for other tuners doing much the same. 

Yes modern ECM's are designed to STOP MPG gains from Fuel Vaporizing, water injection and HHO. Oil Corp owned Car manufacturers GM, FORD, got tired of buying out Fuel vaporizer inventors and shelfing their inventions. They are in the business to make as much $$$ as they can, they do NOT care one bit about the air or the carbon pollution.

I explain it at a Tesla Tech Conference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOXYYTmbFHo

http://www.hydrogengarage.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&c...

Here to help,

Andrew

One of the problems that could occur with tricking the ECU into thinking that the mixture is too rich is that it actually reduces the mixture too far towards being lean. 

Running an overly lean mixture will run hotter and, unless the engine is designed to run at increased temperatures, can and will cause damage.

I run a Harley Davidson where the engine and exhaust is very visible. An overly lean mixture causes the downpipes to glow red which is far in excess of their design temperature. Without the downpipes being made of something like stainless then there will be reduced life of the exhaust system due to increased oxidation caused by the excess heat.

Watch out for your valves!

It is one of the reasons I like H2 injection rather than HHO because it does not interfere with the mixture in terms of increasing or decreasing the Oxygen balance and Oxygen sensor but it does produce a cleaner burn of the fuel.

There are several ways to reduce engine temps due to lean mixtures.  In a document from the 70's made by Ford company, about testing on HHO boost on gasoline and diesels, they said the best way to do that was to inject water, water vapour, or a non combustible gas like recirculating the exhaust gases. 

What I've found with the steam, or hot water vapour injection is that it does not really cool down the engine, but it does increase the HP.  I guess this technique could do better with diesels because of higher compression ratio.

One thing that does cooll down the engine is cold water fog, from an ultrasonic fogger. Plus it's ionized water vapour, wich is more energetic.. The only problem with is that it's hard to control the amount of fog going to the engine.. 

Possibly the best cooling action possible is water/methanol injection. You only need a small amount, around 1 l per 1000 kM. It's easier to optimise the amount of water mist going to the engine at any given moment.  It allows to run leaner without damage to the engine..

Combining water methanol injection with HHO and you can get very close to running without fuel, if every parameters are fully tuned. One thing that can help achieve this also is a strong ignition spark, like CDI or plasma, wich are very good with water mist.  I have pulstar plugs and I've noticed engine is more powerful in very humid, foggy conditions.

Now that is interesting. I never knew that.

I've often noticed that the engine runs better if it is foggy but never really thought much about it.

Thanks for that.

Martin

Felix Audet said:

There are several ways to reduce engine temps due to lean mixtures.  In a document from the 70's made by Ford company, about testing on HHO boost on gasoline and diesels, they said the best way to do that was to inject water, water vapour, or a non combustible gas like recirculating the exhaust gases. 

What I've found with the steam, or hot water vapour injection is that it does not really cool down the engine, but it does increase the HP.  I guess this technique could do better with diesels because of higher compression ratio.

One thing that does cooll down the engine is cold water fog, from an ultrasonic fogger. Plus it's ionized water vapour, wich is more energetic.. The only problem with is that it's hard to control the amount of fog going to the engine.. 

Possibly the best cooling action possible is water/methanol injection. You only need a small amount, around 1 l per 1000 kM. It's easier to optimise the amount of water mist going to the engine at any given moment.  It allows to run leaner without damage to the engine..

Combining water methanol injection with HHO and you can get very close to running without fuel, if every parameters are fully tuned. One thing that can help achieve this also is a strong ignition spark, like CDI or plasma, wich are very good with water mist.  I have pulstar plugs and I've noticed engine is more powerful in very humid, foggy conditions.

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