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Hi all,

I'm about to try the classic glass jar generator using short stainless steel tubes high in nickel. Does anyone have experience using these type material? These tubes are extremely hard and difficult to cut. I think it should give a higher production of hydrogen but I don't know. I will be trying this on a 1989 Audi 100 sedan.

All the best you all.

Bengt Korswing in Sweden.

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Nickel is known for its heat resistant properties.  I purchased a bag of nickel terminals for wires (the seemed to be widely used for toaster repairs) for a wet cell experiment I was running.  They rusted/withered away about the same as regular terminals as I recall.  I don't know what the nickel content % was, but as far as being considered resistant to corrosion.... they are not.  

The chromium in 304 and 316 (and the molybdenum in 316 adds corrosion resistance namely for saline/acidic purposes, less so for base solutions as I understand) is what is the corrosion preventer.  There are other forms of stainless that have more chromium than 304 and 316, and there are other stainless steels that have more molybdenum as well (these are far less common, 904L comes to mind).  904L is a mid grade austenitic stainless, 304 and 316 are the lower economical grades.  There is a grade of super-austenitic stainless steels I have yet to investigate.  

Something else to think about is the face that the ACE cell is designed to rust to provide more H2.  Rust is a sign that the oxygen is being bound up (no O2 going to the engine) which means less oxygen for the O2 sensors to regulate.  

I've been using an acid based cell which functions in that manner.  The hydrogen gases/vapor from a base solution are fare more breathable than an acid based solution.  Those acid based hydrogen fumes will knock you on your keester so if you decided to go that route be aware.  The payoff is that I've been able to go beyond 30% mileage boosts.  I had a temporary prototype setup on my Cherokee that was giving me 60-80% increases in mileage.  The downside is you'll be filling that sucker up constantly, and the cost of the electrolyte is much more than the sodium/potassium hydroxide.

My experience has been that potassium hydroxide eats 304 far more than sodium hydroxide.  I ran a cell with sodium hydroxide for weeks and it was white as snow in 304.  I swapped it out for potassium, keeping the mixture a bit on the weaker side as I recalled KOH would pull more amps for a given amount that NaOH.  It rusted out the cell in less than half an hour and left a rainbowy appearance on the new brown coating on the metal.  

Thank you Wayne. I am still very new to this and have not had much time to learn. I will need some time to reread what you have written to understand it :-) Do you have a video or pictures or instructions you could share on your acid based system. I live in Sweden and we are now paying about 7 1/2 dollars a gallon (US). I live in a small village almost 20 miles from work and there are no buses that I can take to work that is one of the main reasons for me trying to find a way to reduce fuel consumption. Thank you again for you answer. It is so rewarding to read something written by a person who knows. God bless.



Wayne Sanders said:

Nickel is known for its heat resistant properties.  I purchased a bag of nickel terminals for wires (the seemed to be widely used for toaster repairs) for a wet cell experiment I was running.  They rusted/withered away about the same as regular terminals as I recall.  I don't know what the nickel content % was, but as far as being considered resistant to corrosion.... they are not.  

The chromium in 304 and 316 (and the molybdenum in 316 adds corrosion resistance namely for saline/acidic purposes, less so for base solutions as I understand) is what is the corrosion preventer.  There are other forms of stainless that have more chromium than 304 and 316, and there are other stainless steels that have more molybdenum as well (these are far less common, 904L comes to mind).  904L is a mid grade austenitic stainless, 304 and 316 are the lower economical grades.  There is a grade of super-austenitic stainless steels I have yet to investigate.  

Something else to think about is the face that the ACE cell is designed to rust to provide more H2.  Rust is a sign that the oxygen is being bound up (no O2 going to the engine) which means less oxygen for the O2 sensors to regulate.  

I've been using an acid based cell which functions in that manner.  The hydrogen gases/vapor from a base solution are fare more breathable than an acid based solution.  Those acid based hydrogen fumes will knock you on your keester so if you decided to go that route be aware.  The payoff is that I've been able to go beyond 30% mileage boosts.  I had a temporary prototype setup on my Cherokee that was giving me 60-80% increases in mileage.  The downside is you'll be filling that sucker up constantly, and the cost of the electrolyte is much more than the sodium/potassium hydroxide.

My experience has been that potassium hydroxide eats 304 far more than sodium hydroxide.  I ran a cell with sodium hydroxide for weeks and it was white as snow in 304.  I swapped it out for potassium, keeping the mixture a bit on the weaker side as I recalled KOH would pull more amps for a given amount that NaOH.  It rusted out the cell in less than half an hour and left a rainbowy appearance on the new brown coating on the metal.  

7.5 a gallon?  Man that sucks.  I learned a lot from HHO4Free.com myself.  I only just found this site recently.  HHO4Free is a web site owned by someone who's been tinkering for quite a while and he has an extensive FAQ section.  I highly recommend that.

My acid based system uses vinegar (aka 5% acetic acid in 95% distilled water).  I use a full-parallel setup with 5 to 8 cells.  Neutrals are a waste in my opinion. There's nothing magical going on with adding metal to drop the voltage in my opinion.  Making the plates have more space would accomplish the same thing so you're not wasting steel and adding dead weight.  

You have to get creative to make a full parallel setup out of pure stainless for the acid setup.  I get a 22 or 24 gauge stainless steel sheet and have a shop cut it into 1/2 inch by 12 inch strips.  Make arms/bands that attach to a water filter housing cap and extend down.  I punch holes at the ends and run nylon thread rod between them where I have stainless steel washers between.  The stainless steel washers are the cells.  I cut some of those stainless strips into shorter pieces I punch holes into and bend them to turn them into jumpers that attach all of the positives, and the negatives.  All of the cells have a 1mm gap between them with a nylon washer.  It seems to give the most benefits and is the most noticeable in power increase when you have 2 cells for every 1 liter of engine (8 cells for a 4.0).  Each cell will pull about 2 amps at 88 degrees fahrenheit.  You want to use fender washers as they are much larger than normal washers.  

As it warms up it will increase the amp draw... to a point.  Once its really hot the amp draw will actually begin to reverse and go below the starting cold temperature.  The bubbles from the hydrogen and oxygen get in the way of the amp draw.  

You don't want to run it like that for a hydroxide base setup.  The heat will cause the hydroxides to vapor into the engine where it will level out the gas mileage back to normal.  I suspect that is part of the reason people can't acquire mileage benefits without buying some sort of electronic contraption, but I am uncertain.  

You want to run hydroxides as cold as possible, and acids hot.  

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