Hi, 

It's winter here and since I do most of my builds outside, its the season for sketching and head scratching..

I've came up with several possibilities to make HHO more efficiently and as always, can't decide wich one is the best.. 

I've wondering if someone here have info about combining a low voltage DC and pulsed high voltage to a cell, how would it affect efficiency / potency of gas, compared to DC only?

I suspect the HV would make the water more conductible too, so less electrolyte would be needed..

I once got spectacular results with HV and a multi-tubular cell, but it was very inconsistent..

I see a lot of benefits of using HV, but also some problems, corrosion and possibly harmful RF / microwave radiations being created among other things..

Even if it can create corrosion of S316, HV can "scrub" deposited oxide out of the electrode surface real fast.. so it works in a paradoxal way..

Its seems to me that this method ( HV + DC ) is easier to get more gas than the more commonly known? LC resonance electrolysis, since it'll work at all time and does not require a tricky PLL circuit to keep the cell at resonance..

Electrode degradation seems to be the first concern, and the solution to this is:

1 Increase surface area of electrodes

2 Use electrodes coating like Mixed Metal Oxide (MMO)  ( Iridium, Tantalum and other oxides )

There's plenty of manufacturers in China that sells these electrodes MMO coated GR1 titanium.

It seems to be the toughest electrodes out there, some of them can electrolyse sea water!

However they do not mention highest permissible voltage, they only mention 2000 amps per sqare meter, wich is huge..

Anyways, I'll leave it at that, feel free to comment.

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For an automotive application I have a colleague in England that did a stainless steel and nickel electrodes same cell application. He did the tear down and wear analysis which showed favorable condition of wear on a V-8 engine. This was with 50 amps to 100 amps at 12 volts via the generator in a late model vehicle. He employed in wheel generator designs on the vehicle. As far as I know the technology is still available for application. I believe he waste gated the oxygen.

Felix,

I did once a test with DC on electrolytic cell and HV on a cell separated. The electrolyte was Borax. I posted a short film on YouTube with the results. As far I remember at 24 V DC the system draw only 2 A and produce large volumes of gas! 

Search "60 Watts gas generation" on you tube! Can't provide a link since I can't access google.

I have been making cells now for over 10 years. Shipping avg. 15/mo. We use an 11 plate configuration which uses less than one amp to produce enough hho to increase mpg 25-40% in gasoline engines 3 liters or less. We use only 12vdc.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6h5VMWSq4SU
This is the link.
The system was composed by one tubular ozone generator and one tubular electrolytic cel ( six cells in series). The electrolyte ionized by HV ozone cell is " pumped" into electrolytic cell from upper " tank" in close loop, due syphon effect of bubbles.

Hi, 

Thanks for answering. 

I've drawn a one inch thick pile of sketches.. and still have a hard time deciding wich design to pick..but I guess brainstorming is part of the fun.. :)

More and more my choice is landing on a large 13 plates drycell for the HV + DC hho project.

My number one concern is to avoid at all costs premature corrosion of the cell.

That's why I'm going with 5 neutral plates and a large ( huge ) surface area. Cell might be as large as 10" x 18" of active surface area per plate side. 

Central electrode would be positive, with 2 negatives at the outside, with 5 neutrals in between.

Gap would be 7/16". Larger gap has to be used with HV to avoid arcing between the plates. Instead of using a 7/16" thick gasket, wich would be impractical and expensive, I'd use a 1/4" spacer between two 1mm thick EPDM gaskets.

Larger gaps also allow a better circulation and gas evacuation inside the cell.

Both the 12Vdc and 60+ kV would use the same electrodes. 

I'd have to use chokes to limit the current and prevent the HV from grounding inside the 12V circuit. A large diode on the 12V + could also be used. I'll post a schematic of the design if you are interested. 

I'd use a car ignition coil for the HV. A pwm with variable frequency would be used to provide 12V pulses to the HV coil. A DC / DC voltage controller could also be used before the PWM, to control the voltage that goes to the HV coil. This would allow for control over the Voltage and current that exit at the HV side. The amount of HV energy that goes into the cell would also determine the current draw of the cell at the 12V side. The more HV the more ionisation, wich increases conductivity and therefore current draw. 

Other than that, the only way to adjust the amps at the 12V side is to adjust the electrolyte concentration, and also the number of turns on the chokes, that act as a current limiter. 

All this drawn on paper looks pretty simple.. There are probably some things I don't see, as I'm not an electrical engineer. Especially usin the same electrodes for both the HV and DC. It's possible not to, by just using the neutral plates to connect the HV, but I figures it would be more efficient that way.. Only intuition.. 

Just one question for Marius, Did you get corrosion with your HV setup?

I know 5 neutral setups are pretty corrosion free, but what if you add 60 kV on top of that?

Thanks all.

I've changed my mind again.. 

Now I'm looking at this pwm: 

http://www.ogohho.com/goods/detail.do?gid=44

It's fully adjustable, and cheap, and does high frequency ( ultrasounds )

it could be coupled to a flyback transformer, so it would be pulsed 12V + a flyback pulse in the range of 120V. Much lower voltage than I previously thougt, be enough to ionise the water molecule. It's also easy to go 0.5 amps with such a flyback.. 

I think going 120V would be easier on the SS plates with the lower voltage, but still provide a conductivity boost to the water.. 

I can post a schemetics if anyone's interested

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