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Comment by gabet123 on October 11, 2012 at 12:36pm

Greetings,

We have sent out messages before about how we have duplicate Geo located groups and how some of them are totally inactive. After analyzing the issues we realized that the problem exists in the fact that most Geo located groups cover large areas, Most groups cover an entire state or country. Given that most people don't travel entire state or country distances on a regular basis and most peoples outer limit would be about 100 miles or 160/km as something they would do on a monthly basis we have decided to end all Geo located groups in favor of MeetUp Groups. MeetUp groups pull from local communities and have a limited radius footprint. So all Geo located group leaders please make note that if you want to have a group it will have to be run through the MeetUp system. You can get started by visiting http://hydrogen-on-demand.com or http://www.meetup.com/Hydrogen-On-Demand/ DO NOT GO STRAIGHT TO MEETUP.COM as it will not show up within the broader community system. NOTE! Once you have created your MeetUp Group for your area you can come back to HODINFO and create a specific group to target that meetup group and help it gain traction within the community and rank within search engines. By this we mean you can place the URL of your MeetUp Group as the official address of your group here on HODINFO. The groups will have to have the same name and be targeted in this manner in order for us to allow it to be added to the system. All new groups will have to be approved from this point forward. Here is an example of a meetup group that we just set up for the Treasure Coast of Florida. http://hodinfo.com/group/treasure-coast-hydrogen-on-demand#axzz28ty... Please set up your group in a similar manner. We know this is a big change and some members might not like this but if we are to truly be an active community of HOD builders then we need to have a viable infrastructure that underpins the functions of the community. As a result of this effort to make groups more community based this group will be deleted. We ask that members from within this group start your own meetup groups. This will allow all members from within your area to come together.

Comment by Tom Gerber on June 3, 2009 at 2:41pm

It's been awhile since I posted. After making a lot of revisions due to heating and leaking problems, I have both generators working well. Both are Smacks style boosters (Generation 2). One is in a 2007 Toyota Yaris. The other is in a 2006 Chevy Trailblazer. There is little improvement in the Trailblazer (maybe around 5%). But its engine is much bigger than the Yaris, and therefore doesn't have as big of a bang for the amount of hydroxy these things produce. The Yaris, however, does really well with it's 1.8 liter engine. So far, I've gotten 45 mpg going about 73 mph with no wind. The test was done for about 250 miles. I've since been getting above 40 mpg, even in city driving. The lowest I've gotten is about 37 mpg. So, this translates into about a 20-25% increase.

I am not tweaking any sensors. I actually put O2 extenders on the trailblazer and that didn't work. In fact, I think they are counterproductive because it removes the O2 sensor away from the heat of the engine. The voltage these sensors put out is based on the difference between internal and external heat, so if the differential is reduced, in theory it would send back a lower voltage reading...making the ECU throw more gas to the engine because it thinks the mixture is lean. I also tried to alter the voltage with an EFIE, but the one I used didn't switch quickly enough. The trailblazer alternates it's voltage readings quickly, and gives an error code if the sensor does not cross the .45 volt threshold a certain number of times within a certain time period. So, I just scrapped that idea. I think I could do it with another EFIE, but I'm kind of tired of messing with it.

Another thing I found out recently is that the tubing from the bubbler to the air intake should have a small ID (inner diameter). If not, the HHO will pulse in the engine instead of giving it a steady stream. I noticed this when my trailblazer's engine would surge with every pulse of gas. But, I restricted the flow some, and it runs smoothly. Personally, I recommend no bigger than 1/4 inch ID (Preferably 3/16)

Another suggestion I would make is to put an air intake one-way check valve into the generator. As it cools, it creates a vacuum. To keep the generator sealing, you need to make sure that there's not too much pressure or vacuum, or leaks may occur. So, putting a one way check valve onto the system makes sense. I put it before the check valve on the tubing between the generator and the bubbler.

So far, sealing it has been my biggest problem. I have tried a lot of sealants and tapes. But, right now I'm trying some green grease that I got at Autozone. It seems to be working. It's waterproof, and doesn't dry. It has a high melting temperature. I use a lot of it and put it on both the male and female threads. So far, it seems to be working just fine. If this doesn't work, I might just seal it shut with silicone grease.

I recommend a PWM for long distances. These can overheat if you don't watch out. I run a 12 volt thermometer into the car to monitor the heat. I also use an amp meter to make sure it's not drawing too much juice from the alternator. I run it as high as 15 amps. It usually start off at about 8 amps. At any rate, I keep the temperature below 150 degrees.

Comment by Tom Gerber on August 22, 2008 at 9:24am

Update:

As I mentioned, I didn't believe for a second that those results were accurate. I found out yesterday that they weren't. The pump at Walmart did not fill up the tank as much as other tanks do. I think it had something to do with it's velocity creating more turbulence in the tank, causing backpressure earlier than most. Regardless of the cause, I'm sure it was accurate in the amount it said it filled. It just stopped pumping earlier than most pumps do.

The reason I know it didn't fill it up is that my fuel gauge went from full to the next line down a lot quicker. Usually, it takes about 80 miles (if I'm getting 40 mpg which is the best I get with out HHO...highway driving), and it dropped off of full yesterday at 35 mpg. So, my best guess is that the Walmart pump short-filled my tank by about 1.2 gallons.

Even so, my mileage jumped to almost 50 mpg (normally the mileage for city driving ranges from 28-34). I think the driving I did was a hybrid city/hwy, so I would conservatively say that maybe a good estimate of what it would get without HHO would be about 37. Having said that, I think my actual increase is about 35%. But, again, I was hypermiling some, so this number is skewed high. I'll be able to tell more in a week after I take a fairly long road trip on mostly interstate roads.

I am pulling about 8 amps cold temperature...not sure when hot because I keep it below 160 degrees with a pulse width modulator. I'm guessing about 18. I can't get you a exact output number, but I think it starts cold about .4 liters/minute, and gets up to around 1 liter per minute running around 150 degrees. I'm using NAOH (Sodium Hydroxide) as the catalyst which I get from Lowes.

Comment by Tom Gerber on August 21, 2008 at 12:19pm

Update:

This is a bit premature, because I just put in on my wife's Toyota Yaris. Normally, the best we get with highway miles is 40 mpg. City is more around 28-34. After the first fillup after city driving, I got 42.5 mpg. Filling up at the same pump.

I thought that was really good. But, I went another 154.7 miles and filled up again (but at a different pump). I could only fill 1.91 gallons into it. I tried to add more and the pump just stopped right away. If you do the math, that's almost 80 mpg. I was shocked and double and triple checked these numbers. I know the car was doing really well, because the digital gas gauge...which has always been amazingly consistent...dropped very slowly. However, I don't believe for a second it was that good. I think it must be a difference between the two pumps I used (it's stopping point based on back-pressure). So, I'm going to continue to drive it more and see what happens. I'll be taking a 170 mile trip this weekend which will give me my first highway trip, and will eliminate certain factors like stop and go traffic, and proactive fuel-saving driving...which I admittedly have been doing. I may try to video the test as well and fill up the tank to its overflowing point for a more accurate test.

Regardless of the mitigating factors, it's apparent the fuel cell has definitely made an improvement. Only time will tell how much. It is also apparent, however, that driving style and differences in pumps will make a difference in accuracy of results, so keep that in mind when reading everyone's posting.


FYI: My cell is a home-made slightly modified Smacks Booster design using Lowes wall plates (16 plates wrapped in heat shrink). I have not altered any of the sensors. I think I draw about 7 or 8 amps at ambient (75 degree) temperature.

Comment by Tom Gerber on July 2, 2008 at 2:29pm

You ask a big question, Bob. There are lots of ways to build one. Some use stainless rods. Others use coils. Probably most use charged plates, which is what I'm building. You can go to youtube and do a search for hho generators, and you 'll find a lot of info. Also, you can download plans from smacks boosters. There are a lot of considerations, including what electrolyte to use, what to use as a housing for it, what flashback protection (bubbler / arrestor), how to keep the amp draw low, how many plates to use and in what configuration, etc. You may also need to adjust your mass air flow sensor and/or oxygen sensor(s) as well...which is not that difficult to do. My suggestion is to check out smack's boosters and get their plans. It's pretty comprehensive, and they use common items. It's a great place to start. FYI: Smacks uses the stainless steel wall plates from Lowes or Home Depot. You can order them online, I think.

Comment by Robert Dailey on July 2, 2008 at 10:07am

HI NEW TO THIS SITE NEW TO HHO .. HOW DO I BUILD ONE OF THESE UNITS THANKS BOB

Comment by Tom Gerber on July 2, 2008 at 9:18am

I live west of Indy and have done quite a bit of research on different HHO systems. I'm building one now and hope to install it in a week in my 2006 Trailblazer. If necessary, I will put an EFIE and pulse width modulator to trick out the ECM on my car. I'll keep everyone posted. I'd love to hear how everyone else is doing with their systems.

Comment by Brent on June 19, 2008 at 2:49pm

Fort Wayne, working on refining a 3rd party variable current control in the EFI system to accept the more power from Hydroxy over the ambient oxygen its programmed to believe is the only gas it will ever use. In other words tricking the car into leaning out the gasoline flow.

Comment by Scott Hensley on June 16, 2008 at 5:09am

From just west of Indy.

Comment by FyrStrtr on May 17, 2008 at 9:37pm

I'm a fellow Hoosier. I work and go to Church in Indy, and live about 20 miles from Indy. I am doing my homework for now. I am wanting to build by the end of the month.